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July 13, 2009

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Well, I have been reading your blog posts daily and the reason I come on your blog frequently is its compelling content… Regards…

Ralf Kettenhofen

Dear Steve,

what do you understand with the expression 'human cloning'? One has really to take care to use such expression in the right context and it shows that the scientist involved in the issue of pluripotent stem cell science (like myself) have to communicate the principals and results of their work much more intensively with the public.

‘Human cloning’ my imply that it is necessary to engineer a complete human being (like with the cloned sheep Dolly). Even worse, some people might remember the Hollywood thriller ‘The Island’ with Ewan MacGregor where humans have been cloned and used as spare parts storage of new organs for wealthy but diseased clients.
Taken from cell science 'cloning' means that you take a single cell and let it grow to obtain a population of cells with the same genetic background.

There was great progress in the human pluripotent stem cell research in the last one and a half years. Now it is possible to reprogram somatic cells like fibroblast from any the skin of any human being in order to obtain pluripotent stem cells. These cells are called 'induced pluripotent stem' (iPS) cells.

The definition of pluripotency comprises two main issues. The first is that they can differentiate potentially into all cell types of the body and secondly that the stem cells themselves can be kept in culture without loss of their properties in regards of growth and the potential to differentiate.
So these cells will for sure be used for regenerative medicine sometime in the more far future because there will be no rejection of the transplants anymore. Still there are at least some hurdles that have to be overcome in the way how the iPS cells are to be generated.

Much more closer to reality is the application of the human iPS cell-derived cells and tissues for science and pharmaceutical drug development. And this exactly what is going on at the moment.

The most important aspect of human iPS cells is that it is no longer a need to scarifies embryos or to superovolate women with high doses of hormones to get the oocytes for nuclear transfer in order to obtain pluripotent stem cells.

Coming back to your question. To my mind the human iPS cells have to potential to revolutionize drug discovery and medicine in a positive way.

Best regards,

Ralf

Steven S. Clark, PhD

"The embryo is a fully whole organism of the species homo sapien"

Roger, you simply are re-stating the canard that "life begins at conception", which I asserted in my article is an insufficient basis on which to assign full moral standing to an embryo. I won't recreate the argument here, but refer you to my original essay.

"The embryo is actively developing into the next stage of human life."

This is the argument of "potential", which, again, I pointed out is an insufficient argument. As I said in my article, this potential does not exist if the embryo is in a petri dish or frozen in a liquid nitrogen tank. In these environments it most certainly is not "actively developing."

Thanks for your comments.

Roger

Mr Clark's opening statement of his rebuttal sidesteps my main criticism: "What is missing from the previous critiques is a positive statement of why we are obligated to view an embryo as having the *same* rights as a living person (emphasis mine)".

The ethical objection to embryonic stem cell research does *not* (necessarily) assert that an embryo has the *same* rights as a living person (although this claim can certainly be made). The objection asserts only that this stage of life has a status that makes it unethical to treat it as property whose existence can be created, manipulated, and destroyed solely for the benefit of others. By arguing against a higher standard, Mr Clark is implying that this higher standard is necessary to sustain the objections against this research (it is not).

This is a complex subject, but let me state at least 2 relevant qualities of a human embryo that make it deserving of a status that should prohibit its treatment as property.

a) The embryo is a fully whole organism of the species homo sapien. Embryos can thus not be compared to cells, tissues, or non-essential organs from a fully developed organism. When a component of a human being can be removed without endagering the life of that human being, then there are many fewer ethical considerations. When the removal or manipulation of cells, tissues, or organs *kills* the organism (or in this case is the entirety of this organism), then a completely different ethical framework is involved.
b) The embryo is actively developing into the next stage of human life. It requires no external agent or outside force other than its natural environment containing nutrition, temperature control, etc to continue evolving. It certainly has "potential" but it has much more than that. The progress of this life to its culmination at birth is an uninterrupted series of natural cell divisions with no qualitative difference than the cells divisons taking place at the moment the embryo is frozen (or destroyed).

One can of course talk about a lot of qualities that an embryo does not have such as human conciousness, pain sensation, etc. but these qualities are not necessary to sustain the objections to embryonic stem cell research. These qualities might argue for a greater set of rights for a fetus (and still greater for a living person) than an embryo. I would assert, however, that the bare minimum rights that should be afforded to a live autonomous, rapidly-growing, organism of the species homo sapien should prohibit the practice of creating, manipulating, and destroying them at will by others for the benefit of others.

Mr Clark might point out that my assertion not only has implications for embryonic stem cell research but for current practices of assisted reproductive technology. And he would be right.

Steven S. Clark, PhD

What is missing from the previous critiques is a affirmative statement of why we are obligated to view an embryo as having the same rights as a living person.

Perhaps I am missing some compelling point in the right-to-life argument, but I tried to hit the points I do know. I also see no refutation of my points that the right-to-life argument is insufficient on which to base an ethical stand.

"Mr. Clark has distorted the issue by trying to make an argument against an embryo having the full legal standing of an adult."

The embryo having equal moral status as an adult is the central tenant of the right-to-life position, is it not? Addressing this head on is not a distortion.

"Would you say that the classification of "living person" is applied externally, by a group of other previously-classified "living persons""

Yes. And is it consistently applied--yes, except in fringe circumstances, such as "brain death" and it is not wise to base an ethic solely on fringe cases. As I mentioned, it is not possible to have consensus agreement on precisely when an embryo/fetus enjoys full moral consideration. But, there are times when we know it unambiguously does not, just like there are times when we know unambiguously that a man is dead.

Thanks for your comments.

Roger

I agree with Mr Clark's proposal that the ethics surrounding the embryonic stem cell debate should hinge around the legal recognition given to human life at the embryonic stage.

I agree with little else in this piece. To make a long comment short, yes it is true that society will probably not give the same recognition to an embryo as it does to a fully grown adult. I'll go further and say that an embryo is probably not deserving of *all* of the legal recognition given to a viable fetus.

These are straw-man arguments, however, because the opposition to stem cell research comes from the assertion that just the *bare minimum* rights or standing afforded to an embryo are violated by allowing an embryo to be created in petri dishes, kept in freezers, and disposed of at will by its biological parents and society at large.

Mr. Clark has distorted the issue by trying to make an argument against an embryo having the full legal standing of an adult. What he is really trying to blithely justify, however, is an embryo having NO standing at all. Mr. Clark is trying to justify research that treats a life human embryo as *property*, one whose purpose and existence can be completely controlled for the good of others. If human embryonic life is given *any* standing at all (even if it's miniscule appeared to the standing of a born child), then this standing prohibits the practice of this research.

Paul Szews

One question Steve: Would you say that the classification of "living person" is applied externally, by a group of other previously-classified "living persons", as might a jury judge a defendant to be innocent or guilty?

Or is there something inherent to a "living person" that makes him or her both "living" and a "person" regardless of the external perspectives, opinions and experiences of other "living persons"?

And one more, if you please: Can the "living person" classification be revoked after it has been applied, and if so, under what circumstances?

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